Why the AI Race Is Leaving Humans Behind with Tristan Harris
3/26/20261 hr 17 min
Tristan Harris, a technology ethicist and co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology, studies how the tech industry’s platforms have become extractive and controlling. Kara first interviewed him in 2017, and after he was featured in the 2020 Netflix documentary “The Social Dilemma,” his profile shot through the roof. Now he's featured in a new film called, "The AI Doc: Or How I Became an Apocaloptimist," which explores the promises and existential risks of AI. Tristan joins Kara to discuss how the current AI arms race is driven by the wrong incentives, and why that's leading us towards an "anti-human" future. He argues that the benefits and breakthroughs promised by AI are inseparable from profound risks, and calls for public pressure, regulation and global coordination to build a humane future with AI before it's too late. Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Transcript preview
First 90 secondsKara Swisher· Host0:00
Let's assume we don't wanna be doing this interview in five years from a bunker.
Tristan Harris· Guest0:04
[laughs] Let's, let's avoid that, Kara.
Kara Swisher· Host0:05
Let's, let's avoid that.
Speaker 20:07
It's on.
Kara Swisher· Host0:08
[upbeat music] Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is Tristan Harris, a technology ethicist and co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology. He's a former entrepreneur and Google employee who now studies how the tech industry's platforms have become extractive and controlling. He was featured in the 2020 Netflix documentary, The Social Dilemma, which showed how social media has manipulated our psychology and behavior through addictive algorithms. Now he's in a new film from director Daniel Roher called The AI Doc or How I Became an Apocaloptimist, I think I got that right, which explores the promises and existential threats of AI, topics Tristan has written and spoken about extensively. When he was last on in May of 2023, we talked about why he felt the AI arms race needed to slow down. Three years later, that hasn't happened, and AI has become integrated into nearly every aspect of society. I have been talking to Tristan for many, many years. We did an original interview back in 2017. I think I was one of the first people to focus on what he was saying, 'cause he had come out of the tech industry, and he had such insights into