Vultures and the Public Health: The 323rd Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying
4/30/20261 hr 33 min
On this, our 323rd Evolutionary Lens livestream, we discuss vultures, politics, and complex systems. Vultures, which have evolved multiple times (like mangroves, poison frogs, and “trees”), specialize on carrion. In India, a painkiller commonly used in people but toxic to vultures, diclofenac, came out of patent, began to be used in cattle, and the vast majority of vultures in India died. Downstream effects include the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, and tens of billions of dollars in economic losses. Now in Africa, vultures are being poisoned intentionally, and a similar devastation is likely to happen. Vultures are ugly, smelly, and gross…and utterly central to the health of not just their ecosystems, but the people who live in and near them. Welcome to complex systems. Also: Katie Wilson, the mayor of Seattle, seems to be engaged in a kind of “scientific socialism,” akin to “scientific racism,” in which quasi-scientific ideas are used to justify (bad) policy.
*****
Our sponsors:
Lovebird: Delicious, nutritious cereal made with real ingredients. Go to http://lovebirdfoods.com/darkhorseand use code DARKHORSE for 25% off your first order.
Fresh Pressed Olive Oil Club: Scrumptious & freshly harvested. Go to http://www.GetFreshDarkHorse.com to get a bottle of the best olive oil you’ve ever had for $1 shipping.
Xlear: Xylitol nasal spray that acts as prophylaxis against respiratory illnesses by reducing the stickiness of bacteria and viruses. Find Xlear online, or at your local pharmacy, grocery store, or natural products store.
*****
Join us on Locals! Get access to our Discord server, exclusive live streams, live chats for all streams, and early access to many podcasts: https://darkhorse.locals.com
Heather’s newsletter, Natural Selections (subscribe to get free weekly essays in your inbox): https://naturalselections.substack.com
Our book, A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century, is available everywhere books are sold, including from Amazon: https://amzn.to/3AGANGg (commission earned)
Check out our store! Epic tabby, digital book burning, saddle up the dire wolves, and more: https://darkhorsestore.org
*****
Mentioned in this episode:
Frank & Sudarshan 2024. The social costs of keystone species collapse: evidence from the decline of vultures in India. American Economic Review 114(10): 3007-3040: https://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/id/eprint/171014/13/WRAP-twerp-1433-Sudarshan-24.pdf
Anoosh Moonka tweet: https://x.com/anishmoonka/status/2049394252573004057
On the Origin of Species: https://dn710801.ca.archive.org/0/items/darwin-online\_1859\_Origin\_F373/1859\_Origin\_F373\_text.pdf
Katie Wilson clip from Brandi Kruse: https://x.com/BrandiKruse/status/2049562844862324861
Clips
Transcript preview
First 90 secondsBret Weinstein· Host0:00
[on-hold music] Hey, folks. Welcome to the Dark Horse podcast live stream. It is number 323. I am Dr. Brett Weinstein. You are Dr. Heather Heying. We've been, uh, traveling, and therefore, this is our first broadcast in some time.
Heather Heying· Co-host0:20
Mm-hmm.
Bret Weinstein· Host0:20
But, uh, it's gonna be a fascinating one.
Heather Heying· Co-host0:22
I think so, and coming back to Washington, as we did last night, it was amazing how crisp the air was. We were, uh, in various places in the, um, sort of the southeast, uh, in Florida, North Carolina, New Orleans. Uh, in fact, in North Carolina, you had a conversation, uh, intended to be and has become public with Jonathan Pageau and our good friend Jordan Hall. Uh, and, uh, and North Car- West North Carolina was extraordinary. Um, uh, but especially in those other two places I just mentioned, in Florida and New Orleans, uh, beautiful though they are, there is so much stuff in the air, so much water in the air, that you don't really realize that you're looking through a little bit of a haze. And you come back to Washington, and things feel just crystal clear. It's like, it's like a film has been taken away from the eyes.
Bret Weinstein· Host1:15
Yeah.
Heather Heying· Co-host1:15
It's amazing.
Bret Weinstein· Host1:15
It's amazing how, how different it is, uh, to, to just look around.
Heather Heying· Co-host1:19
Yeah.
Bret Weinstein· Host1:19
Um, that conversation, I should just say, I thought it was gonna frustrate lots of people in the audience. It frustrated a few, but by and large, people have really loved the conversation, and I would recommend people