The Civilization Trump Destroys May Be Our Own
4/10/20261 hr 8 min
When President Trump didn’t annihilate “a whole civilization” on Tuesday, as he had threatened to do, much of the world exhaled. But the damage of his statements — a U.S. president, the commander in chief of the world’s most powerful military, threatening to commit war crimes — continues to linger in the shadow of an uncertain cease-fire.
Trump did not destroy Iran, but he may be destroying another civilization: ours.
Fareed Zakaria is the host of CNN’s “Fareed Zakaria GPS” and the author of “Age of Revolutions” and other books. In this conversation, we discuss whether Trump’s threats on Truth Social worked as a negotiating tactic, the significance of crossing this kind of moral line and how the decline of American leadership is already reshaping the world.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
Age of Revolutions by Fareed Zakaria
“The Predatory Hegemon” by Stephen M. Walt
“Iran is an imperial trap. America walked right in.” by Fareed Zakaria
Book Recommendations:
A World Safe for Democracy by G. John Ikenberry
The Irony of American History by Reinhold Niebuhr
The Quiet American by Graham Greene
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our recording engineer is Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Jack McCordick, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
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Transcript preview
First 90 secondsDane Brugler0:00
I'm Dane Brugler. I cover the NFL Draft for The Athletic. Our draft guide picked up the name The Beast because of the crazy amount of information that's included. I'm looking at thousands of players, putting together hundreds of scouting reports. I've been covering this year's draft since last year's draft. There is a lot in The Beast that you simply can't find anywhere else. This is the kind of in-depth, unique journalism you get from The Athletic and The New York Times. You can subscribe at nytimes.com/subscribe.
Ezra Klein· Host0:29
[gentle music] A few weeks back, we did a show on whether the Iran war would break Trumpism. What we've seen over the past week is more specific. The Iran war is breaking Trump. At eight zero three AM on Easter Sunday, Trump posted this to Truth Social, "Tuesday will be Power Plant Day and Bridge Day all wrapped up in one in Iran. There'll be nothing like it. Open the fucking Strait, you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. Just watch.