The Case for Real Regime Change in Venezuela
1/7/202654 min
What should the U.S. do next in Venezuela? President Trump’s former Venezuela envoy Elliott Abrams wants the Trump administration to push harder for full regime change. But, he and Ross debate if a democratic transition is even possible based on the administration’s interests and past American efforts in the region.
- 01:15 - The case for regime change in Venezuela
- 07:43 - The Trump administration’s current strategy
- 14:06 - The Abrams Plan: An alternative approach
- 17:50 - Oil blockades, sanctions, and military action
- 28:54 - Past transitions in Latin America
- 36:06 - The Reagan administration's “unsavory allies”
- 43:57 - Trump’s priorities are a “mystery”
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
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Transcript preview
First 90 secondsRoss Douthat· Host0:03
From New York Times Opinion, I'm Ross Douthat, and this is Interesting Times. (instrumental music plays) What is actually happening in Venezuela? Is it a real regime change? A cynical attempt to replace one dictatorship with another? An even more cynical grab for oil revenue? A Trumpian break with past US policy-making? Or just Yankee imperialism as usual? My guest this week helped make US foreign policy toward Latin America under three different Republican presidents: Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, and in Donald Trump's first term. He's intimately familiar with coups, and civil wars, and successful transitions to democracy, and he's long been an advocate of overthrowing Nicolás Maduro, but maybe not overthrowing him this way. Elliott Abrams, welcome to Interesting Times.
Elliott Abrams· Guest1:16
Thank you.
Ross Douthat· Host1:17
So, we're just gonna jump right in. Though I should actually mention that we are recording this on a Tuesday morning. Ideally, the episode will appear relatively quickly but, obviously, we're talking about