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Sober AF, Michael Scott Phobia, and How to Politely End a Conversation

5/21/20261 hr 3 min

Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s take on how to engage with it. Finally, they deliver a masterclass on the art and science of ending social interactions, sharing the ultimate shortcut to a graceful exit. This is great!  You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). 0:00 - What Are We Talking About Today? 5:00 - Sober AF: Celebrating 30 Years of Sobriety  16:30 - Grieving for Joy 28:22 - Why Can’t Brené Watch The Office? 43:18 - Loving or Hating Violating the Rules 49:30 - The Art of Leaving Conversations Respectfully 1:03:40 - The Shortcut to a Graceful Exit 1:08:39 - What Adam and Brené Are Watching Now Gottman Institute - Research and History - Drs. Julie and John Gottman (Founded 1996) The Love Prescription, Part 2 of 3 - Brene Brown with Drs John and Julie Gottman, 2022, Unlocking Us Podcast The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2010, TED Talk, TEDxHouston Everything You Think You Know About Addiction Is Wrong - Johann Hari, 2015, TED Talk, TEDGlobalLondon The Fresh Start Effect: Temporal Landmarks Motivate Aspirational Behavior - Dai, Milkman & Riis, 2014, Management Science Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, book, Gotham Books I Love Lucy: Job Switching - Arnaz, 1952, CBS The Office: Scott's Tots - B.J. Novak, 2009, NBC Benign Violations: Making Immoral Behavior Funny - McGraw & Warren, 2010, Psychological Science Office Ladies - Fischer & Kinsey, 2019-present, Audacy (Podcast) Do Conversations End When People Want Them To? - Mastroianni et al., 2021, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Politeness: Some Universals in Language Usage - Brown & Levinson, 1987, Cambridge University Press (Book) Want to Improve Your Relationship? Start Paying More Attention to Bids - Logan Ury, 2026, Gottman Institute The Virtues of Gossip: Reputational Information Sharing as Prosocial Behavior - Feinberg, Willer, Stellar & Keltner, 2012, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Jury Duty - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2023-2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)  Jury Duty Presents: Company Retreat - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series) The Madison - 2026, Sheridan, Paramount+ (Television Series) Landman - Sheridan, 2024-present, Paramount+ (Television Series) Opening Up Closings - Schegloff & Sacks, 1973, Semiotica Closing the Conversation: Evidence from the Academic Advising Session - Hartford & Bardovi-Harlig, 1992, Discourse Processes Collaborative Strategies in Chinese Telephone Conversation Closings - Sun, 2005, Pragmatics Ending Social Encounters - Albert & Kessler, 1978, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology Relations in Public: Microstudies of the Public Order - Erving Goffman, 1971, Basic Books (Book) Sorry for Your Kindness: Japanese Interactional Ritual in Public Discourse - Ide, 1998, Journal of Pragmatics Getting Down to Business: Talk, Gaze, and Body Orientation During Openings of Doctor-Patient Consultations - Robinson, 1998, Human Communication Research Negotiating Last-Minute Concerns in Closing Korean Medical Encounters - Park, 2013, Social Science & Medicine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Clips

Transcript preview

First 90 seconds
  1. Brené Brown· Host0:00

    Three topics for today. One, let's chat sobriety and my 30 years. I, I have some interesting thoughts I wanna run by you. Two- The Office ... we're going to talk about not just The Office, but why I'm incapable of watching shows that people love. And three, we'll talk about the art and science of gently leaving conversations.

  2. Adam Grant· Host0:24

    Love it.

  3. Brené Brown· Host0:25

    How's that sound?

  4. Adam Grant· Host0:26

    I mean, that's the perfect way- Okay.

  5. Brené Brown· Host0:27

    We're- ...

  6. Adam Grant· Host0:27

    to exit this conversation is to talk about how to get out of one.

  7. Brené Brown· Host0:30

    [laughs] Welcome to The Curiosity Shop.

  8. Adam Grant· Host0:34

    A show from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

  9. Brené Brown· Host0:35

    [upbeat music] Hi, everyone. I'm Brene Brown.

  10. Adam Grant· Host0:43

    And I'm Adam Grant.

  11. Brené Brown· Host0:44

    Okay. Um, I thought we'd start with a new question because John and Julie Gottman, who I absolutely love the Gottmans' work, are celebrating their 30th anniversary, and they taught me this question. I use it with Steve. It's such a good question. What's on your heart and mind?

  12. Adam Grant· Host1:05

    Am I supposed to have different answers to both?

  13. Brené Brown· Host1:07

    I don't know. It depends on how far apart they live in your mind- [laughs] ... in your body, I guess. But, um, what's on your heart and mind today, this week that we can talk about?

  14. Adam Grant· Host1:16

    Well, 30 years. I mean, did you forget your post?

  15. Brené Brown· Host1:21

    Oh, yes. Uh, John and Julie Gottman- Sobriety ... are celebrating their 30th anniversary, and I am cele- I'm celebrating 30 years

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