Learning from the mighty matriarchs of the animal kingdom
6/4/202652 min
Erna Walraven was one of the first female zookeepers to work at Sydney's Taronga Zoo in the 1980s. She ignored practical jokes from her male colleagues, like animal dung in her gumboots, and this led to career highlights like travelling the globe to select the zoo's next gorilla patriarch. (R)
Erna was born in The Netherlands, to parents who were involved in the Dutch resistance during World War II.
Erna's love of languages took her to Spain, where she lived for many years with her widowed sister and young nephew.
It was there she met a penniless Australian backpacker and fell in love, starting Erna on the path to the rest of her life.
Further information
Originally broadcast May 2025.
Hear Me Roar was published by Affirm Press in 2025.
This episode was produced by Alice Moldovan. The Executive Producer was Nicola Harrison.
This episode touches on feminism, sexism, animals, breeding gorillas, zoos, captive animals, Dutch resistance, marry an Australian, Spain, love of languages, history and Europe.
To binge even more great episodes of the Conversations podcast with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you’ll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.
Clips
Transcript preview
First 90 secondsSarah Kanowski· Host0:00
Why do humans hold on to stuff? Oddments we don't use, and yet can't quite throw out. It's not just you and me. Australia's oldest library is crammed with stuff that isn't books. Terrible paintings, old menus, human hair. Is this history or hoarding? I'm Annabelle Crabb. Come and have a rummage through the story of us told by our stuff. Search for the History or Hoarding podcast on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.
Erna Walraven· Guest0:30
[upbeat music] ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music, and more.
Sarah Kanowski· Host0:35
Anna Walraven used to begin her working days by saying, "Good morning, boys and girls." But she wasn't talking to kids. Anna was addressing 30 chimpanzees waiting to be given their breakfast and to be let out into their day enclosure. For two decades, Anna was the senior curator at Taronga Zoo. As the sun was coming up, she would walk through those iconic zoo gates and see Sydney Harbor sparkling in the distance over the heads of the giraffes, hearing the sounds of the lions and monkeys and birds as the zoo woke up. All of this was a long way from Anna's childhood in the Netherlands, where as a little girl, she was forbidden to wear woolen hats or gloves in the wintertime. She and her sister had to prove themselves by jumping off high walls and swimming across