Heretics: The Scientists Who Were Mocked But Later Proven Right
3/12/20261 hr 3 min
Why do some world-changing ideas get ignored, attacked, or buried for years before anyone takes them seriously?
Michael Shermer sits down with The Economist science correspondent Matt Kaplan to discuss the scientists who got there first and paid the price. They talk about why institutions resist new ideas, why careers can depend on defending the status quo, and why being right is often not enough.
They discuss figures like Katalin Karikó, whose work on mRNA was dismissed long before it helped transform modern medicine, and Oliver Wendell Holmes, who faced fierce backlash for arguing that doctors themselves were spreading deadly infections.
This is a fascinating look at what happens when evidence collides with ego, reputation, and scientific orthodoxy. It's also a conversation about truth, status, intellectual courage, and the deeply human side of science.
Matt Kaplan is a science correspondent at The Economist. He has written about everything from paleontology and parasites to virology and viticulture over the course of two decades. His new book is I Told You So! Scientists Who Were Ridiculed, Exiled, and Imprisoned for Being Right.
Clips
Transcript preview
First 90 secondsSpeaker 00:00
From unsolved mysteries to unexplained phenomena, from comedy gold to relationship fails, Amazon Music's got the most ad-free top podcasts included with Prime. Because the only thing that should interrupt your listening is, well, nothing. Download the Amazon Music app today. Confronting high credit card debt can feel scary. But the good news is, if you owe ten thousand dollars or more in credit card debt, financial relief options are now available. National Debt Relief is currently offering debt relief designed to reduce what you owe and put you on the fast track to becoming debt-free. If you qualify for debt relief, you may be able to pay back less than what you owe and save thousands of dollars. Just visit nationaldebtrelief.com. Imagine only paying one low monthly program payment you can afford and saving money as you become debt-free. National Debt Relief has already helped bring debt relief to over five hundred and fifty thousand US consumers, earning thousands of five-star reviews and an A-plus rating with the Better Business Bureau. You're stronger than your credit card debt. Let today be the day you start turning things around. Take the first step and visit nationaldebtrelief.com to see what debt relief you may qualify for. That's nationaldebtrelief.com.
Matt Kaplan· Guest1:15
The biographer of Pasteur says, "But you have to understand the high-pressure environment of French academia." There's on top of it, he did human testing with his rabies vaccine, and when people died, he buried it along with the people. The people died,