George Ellis: Hawking's Co-Author on Why Reductionism Is Dead
4/20/20261 hr 35 min
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- I subscribe to The Economist for their science and tech coverage. As a TOE listener, get 35% off! No other podcast has this: https://economist.com/TOE George Ellis is one of those guests who makes you rethink what you thought you understood. Co-author with Stephen Hawking of the singularity theorems, he's spent decades insisting on something most physicists won't touch: that reductionism is simply — patently — false. Physics doesn't decide outcomes. Context does. The thermostat sets the temperature. The algorithm tells the electrons what to do. The physics is the servant, not the master. FOLLOW:
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- 00:00:00 - Reductionism is Patently False
- 00:07:37 - Top-Down Causation Mechanics
- 00:13:46 - Modular Hierarchical Structures
- 00:21:00 - Causation at Emergent Levels
- 00:26:56 - Universal Biological Principles
- 00:36:07 - Critiquing Penrose and CCC
- 00:42:41 - The Physics of Infinity
- 00:48:50 - Agency and Physical Constraints
- 00:56:08 - The Open Future
- 01:07:23 - Bioelectricity and Goal-Directedness
- 01:12:28 - Evolving Block Universe
- 01:19:32 - Multiverse as Metaphysics
- 01:24:49 - Moral Realism as Data LINKS MENTIONED:
- George's Papers: https://inspirehep.net/authors/1010821
- George's Books: https://amazon.com/stores/George-Francis-Rayner-Ellis/author/B00287T2PW
- Arrow of Time [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/1302.7291
- Why Reductionism Does Not Work [Paper]: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-662-63187-4_6
- Recognizing Top-Down Causation [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/1212.2275
- Top-Down Causation by Information Control [Paper]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3226993/
- Causal Closure of Physics [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.00972
- Issues in Philosophy of Cosmology [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0602280
- The Music of Life [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0199228361?tag=toe08-20
- How Can Physics Underlie the Mind? [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/3662498073?tag=toe08-20
- Large Scale Structure of Space-Time [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0521099064?tag=toe08-20
- The Selfish Gene [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0199291152?tag=toe08-20
- World Beyond Physics [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0190871334?tag=toe08-20
- Contextual Wavefunction Collapse [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/1807.08171
- A Theory of Biological Relativity [Paper]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23386960/
- Facing Up to the Problem of Consciousness [Paper]: https://consc.net/papers/facing.pdf
- Denis Noble [TOE]: https://youtu.be/K-U-ZB3yHK4
- Michael Levin [TOE]: https://youtu.be/c8iFtaltX-s
- Sean Carroll [TOE]: https://youtu.be/9AoRxtYZrZo
- Quantum Physics, Digital Computers, and Life [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2403.06306
- Dynamical Emergence of Biology from Physics [Paper]: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physiology/articles/10.3389/fphys.2018.01966/full
- The Whole Truth [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0691231354?tag=toe08-20
- Endless Forms Most Beautiful [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0393327795?tag=toe08-20
- Topology and Cosmology [Paper]: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02450512 More links at https://curtjaimungal.substack.com Guests do not pay to appear. #science Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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First 90 secondsSpeaker 00:00
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George Ellis· Guest0:29
The physics is enabling it to happen. We are telling the physics what to do, and the physics does what we tell it to do. The physics isn't deciding anything.
Curt Jaimungal· Host0:38
Most physicists would say that everything reduces to particles obeying fundamental laws. Professor George Ellis, who co-authored with Stephen Hawking singularity theorems, which extended Roger Penrose's original theorem to cosmological settings, believes this is utter nonsense.
George Ellis· Guest0:56
The physics is the servant, not the master.
Curt Jaimungal· Host0:59
Much like Yakir Aharonov, this is the professor's only ever podcast appearance. My name is Curt Jaimungal, and on this channel, I interview researchers regarding their theories of reality with rigor and technical depth. Today, we discuss top-down causation and why Ellis says reductionism is patently false. We also discuss his evolving block universe, what that has to do with free will, why there is no wave function of the universe, which is something Carlo Rovelli also says, and also, we close with this legendary cosmologist's