Friction Matters: Resistance Is a Feature, Not a Bug
3/5/202654 min
Friction gets an bad rap, according Jennifer Vail. As a tribologist, she studies interacting surfaces in relative motion, and she’s worked on everything from aerospace materials to syringes to dog food. Her new book, Friction: A Biography, explores the science of rubbing surfaces, the history of lubrication, and why “frictionless” is a dangerous fantasy. Kara and Jennifer unpack everything from Roman chariot “pit stops” to ball bearings and how tiny tweaks in texture and lubricant chemistry can save massive amounts of energy. They end with a discussion of behavioral friction (the kind tech companies want to get rid of) and Kara makes the case for “good friction” in tech, work, and relationships. Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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First 90 secondsAdam Becker· Soundbite0:00
[upbeat music] It's on.
Kara Swisher· Host0:03
Hi, everyone. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is tribologist Jennifer Vail. Tribology is the study of friction, wear, and lubrication between the interacting surfaces in relative motion. It's a little-known but hugely important discipline. Jennifer is also the author of a new book entitled Friction: A Biography. It's a fascinating look at the history of how humans have learned to understand and manipulate friction. We don't often think about the effects of friction, but once you become aware of them, you realize they're everywhere and impossible to unsee. I'm excited to talk to her about it because in technology, one of the things technologists try to do is eliminate all friction, including in social interactions. It's had an enormously bad effect on our society. Chatbots, the way we talk to each other, the way we conduct friction online has become something that's been very deleterious to our species, I think. And so it's really important to understand the good and bad parts of friction. Of course, I'm a friction-filled person, and I have done very well by it, and I think it's really important to do that for creativity, for innovation, and for basic humanity. Our expert questions come from astrophysicist Adam Becker and health policy expert Ezekiel Emanuel. This