Demis Hassabis, Google DeepMind and the Battle Over AI Safety
5/28/20261 hr 2 min
Kara speaks with journalist and author Sebastian Mallaby about his new book, "The Infinity Machine," and its central figure: Demis Hassabis, the CEO and co-founder of Google's AI research lab, DeepMind, and a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry. Sebastian argues that Hassabis is one of the original scientist-entrepreneurs of modern AI. And although he's extremely competitive and research-driven, Sebastian says Hassabis is also one of the few big names in AI development who genuinely cares about public safety. However, despite his best intentions, Hassabis doesn’t have the power to change the race dynamic driving AI’s rapid, and potentially unsafe, development. Kara and Sebastian break down DeepMind's relationship with Google, the push toward artificial general intelligence, and whether the government can regulate the technology before something goes wrong. Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Transcript preview
First 90 secondsSebastian Mallaby· Guest0:00
Kara, Kara, I was trying to do this sort of optimistic, you know, ending riff- I understand, Sebastian ... and you're like, you know, you just burst my balloon.
Kara Swisher· Host0:07
You know, intelligence has its limitations, but stupidity and greed are infinite. [laughs] So that's my feeling. I'm sorry.
Speaker 30:13
It's on.
Kara Swisher· Host0:14
[upbeat music] Hi, everyone. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is journalist and author Sebastian Mallaby. He's a longtime chronicler of power and innovation, especially in the world of finance and economics. For his latest book, The Infinity Machine, he turns his attention to tech. His central figure is Demis Hassabis, the CEO and co-founder of Google's AI R&D lab, DeepMind, and a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry. Hassabis has dedicated his life to using AI to unlock the mysteries of physics and biology. A former child chess prodigy, he's rabidly competitive and insatiably curious. But Mallaby says Demis is also one of the very few big names in AI development who genuinely cares about public safety. His struggle to balance his ambition, his personal goals, and the realities of the corporate AI race is, according to Mallaby, one of the most defining stories of the era. I think it's really important to look at characters like Demis because he was a very early person in AI, at least the modern version of AI, 'cause it's been around forever. He's