Classic Chats: Grayson Perry on why he hates classical civilisation
4/23/202650 min
Mary and Charlotte talk to artist Grayson Perry about why he hates classical civilisation. Grayson is one of Britain’s most famous artists - he won the Turner Prize in 2003, has been exhibited in major exhibitions across the globe, published books and presented television programmes. Earlier this year, Grayson delivered the Rumble Fund Lecture 2026 at King’s College London, entitled ‘Why I hate classical civilisation’. Needless to say, Mary and Charlotte want to know why - and also see if they can encourage him to think more positively about his relationship with the ancient world. Grayson talks about the tedium of learning Latin at school, his irritation at the endless classical imitations in British architecture and asks why bad people - names are mentioned - hold up the classics as the peak of civilisation. Mary and Charlotte hit back. Just as many radicals and revolutionaries have been inspired by the classics as dictators or would-be dictators. Mary wishes she’d had the chance to teach Latin to Grayson. There’s a thought… Content warning: This episode features bad words beginning with the letter ‘f’. Mary and Charlotte recommend some further reading: The Tomb of the Unknown Craftsman, a book accompanying Perry’s British Museum exhibition, was published by the British Museum Press, 2011. An image from Perry’s The Rap of the Sabine Women (1981) can be seen on the Stedelijk Museum website. @instaclassicpod for Insta, TikTok and YouTube @insta_classics for X email: instantclassicspod@gmail.com Instant Classics handmade by Vespucci Producer: Jonty Claypole Video Editor: Jak Ford Theme music: Casey Gibson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Clips
Transcript preview
First 90 secondsCharlotte Higgins· Host0:00
This week on Instant Classics, we are delighted to be welcoming a very special guest to the show. It's Grayson Perry. He's one of Britain's most celebrated artists, a national treasure, known for his remarkable work in ceramics as well as in other media such as tapestry and sculpture. He's also beloved for his insightful TV documentaries examining subjects from Britishness to modern masculinity. And frankly, he's also famous for his amazing outfits in his guise as Claire, his more elaborately dressed alternative persona.
Mary Beard· Host0:36
Grayson won the Turner Prize in 2003, delivered the BBC's Reith Lectures in 2013, was knighted in 2023, and in between has made a host of remarkable exhibitions, both as artist and as curator. Uh, I particularly remember his exhibition at the British Museum in 2011, The Tomb of the Unknown Craftsman, but more recently there's been a show at the Wallace Collection in London, Delusions of Grandeur.
Charlotte Higgins· Host1:09
We all suffer from those, I think, from time to time.
Grayson Perry· Guest1:12
Not me.
Charlotte Higgins· Host1:12
[laughs] Never you, Grayson. Never you. You are the exception to the rule. The reason we've invited you onto the show today, Grayson, is that recently you gave a fabulous lecture in London, uh, it's the Rumble Lecture at King's College London,