'A bad start even before he starts' - Welsh First Minister on why trouble's brewing with Burnham

Nick Robinson· Host0:00

Hello and welcome to Political Thinking. The big idea of the man who looks almost certain to be our next Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, is devolution. The former mayor of Greater Manchester argues that taking more decisions away from Whitehall and away from Westminster doesn't just make for better policy, it could make us all richer. That is music to the ears of my guest on Political Thinking this week. A man who's just himself got a very big new job as First Minister of Wales. He's Rhun ap Iorwerth, the leader of Plaid Cymru, the party which favors independence for Wales, and which won an election for the first time in its history, ending a century of Labour dominance. One reason why Keir Starmer was forced by his own MPs to leave office. [upbeat music] Rhun ap Iorwerth, welcome back to Political Thinking, and I should say congratulations.

Rhun ap Iorwerth· Guest0:59

Thank you very much, Nick. It's good to be here.

Nick Robinson· Host1:01

You have experienced the whirlwind of going from opposition, from not having power, to having it. We'll talk about what that means for you, but you got any tips for Andy Burnham?

Rhun ap Iorwerth· Guest1:11

[laughs] Plan. A-a-and I think we planned very, very carefully for coming into office, and that's standing us in good stead now. We weren't taking anything for granted, but if things did go in a direction, we were ready to go, and that's been proved true. Maybe he hasn't had much time to prepare, or maybe he has.

Nick Robinson· Host1:27

[laughs] But without a plan,