#482 – Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature
10/1/20254 hr 43 min
Pavel Durov is the founder and CEO of Telegram. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep482-sc See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.
Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/pavel-durov-transcript
CONTACT LEX: Feedback - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey AMA - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama Hiring - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring Other - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact
EPISODE LINKS: Pavel's Telegram: https://t.me/durov Pavel's X: https://x.com/durov Telegram: https://telegram.org/ Telegram Contests: https://contest.com/
SPONSORS: To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: Miro: Online collaborative whiteboard platform. Go to https://miro.com/ UPLIFT Desk: Standing desks and office ergonomics. Go to https://upliftdesk.com/lex Fin: AI agent for customer service. Go to https://fin.ai/lex LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/lex Shopify: Sell stuff online. Go to https://shopify.com/lex
OUTLINE: (00:00) - Introduction (02:46) - Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections (11:29) - Philosophy of freedom (14:37) - No alcohol (22:42) - No phone (28:38) - Discipline (49:50) - Telegram: Lean philosophy, privacy, and geopolitics (1:05:12) - Arrest in France (1:21:23) - Romanian elections (1:32:18) - Power and corruption (1:41:50) - Intense education (1:53:51) - Nikolai Durov (1:58:19) - Programming and video games (2:02:33) - VK origins & engineering (2:19:46) - Hiring a great team (2:29:02) - Telegram engineering & design (2:48:04) - Encryption (2:53:01) - Open source (2:57:48) - Edward Snowden (3:00:20) - Intelligence agencies (3:01:32) - Iran and Russia government pressure (3:04:41) - Apple (3:11:38) - Poisoning (3:43:53) - Money (3:52:45) - TON (4:02:35) - Bitcoin (4:05:34) - Two chairs dilemma (4:12:14) - Children (4:23:24) - Father (4:27:55) - Quantum immortality (4:34:27) - Kafka
PODCAST LINKS:
- Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
- Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
- RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
- Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
- Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips
Clips
Transcript preview
First 90 secondsLex Fridman· Host0:00
The following is a conversation with Pavel Durov, founder and CEO of Telegram, a messaging platform actively used by over one billion people. Pavel has spent his life fighting for freedom of speech, building tools that protect human communication from surveillance and censorship. For this, he has faced pressure from some of the most powerful governments and organizations on Earth. In the face of this immense pressure, he has always held his ground, continuously fighting to protect user privacy and the freedom of all of us humans to communicate with each other. I got the chance to spend a few weeks with him and can definitively say that he is one of the most principled and fearless humans I've ever met. Plus, when I posted that I'm hanging out with Pavel, a lot of people, fans of his, wrote to me asking if he does in fact privately live the disciplined, ascetic life he's known for. No alcohol, stoic mindset, strict diet and exercise, including a crazy amount of daily pull-ups and push-ups, no phone except to occasionally test Telegram features, and so on. Yes, he's 100% that guy, which made the experience of hanging out with him really inspiring to me. I'm grateful for it, and I'm grateful to now be able to call him a friend. This podcast conversation is in parts philosophical, about freedom, life, human nature, and, uh,