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Making Sense with Sam Harris

#475 — The Hard Problem of Consciousness

5/12/202626 min

Sam Harris speaks with Michael Pollan about consciousness, the mind, and the self. They discuss Pollan's new book, the relationship between consciousness and intelligence, whether consciousness is a product of evolution, the role of psychedelics in consciousness research, AI and the question of machine consciousness, the illusion of the self, and other topics.

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Clips

Why Evolve Consciousness?
Scientists Quietly Using Psychedelics
Psychedelics Find Bipartisan Backers
The Myth Of Permanent Peaks
The Hard Problem Persists
A Psychedelic Motif Emerges
Capitalism Meets Psychedelics

Transcript preview

First 90 seconds

  1. Sam Harris· Host0:00

    [gentle music] You're listening to Making Sense with Sam Harris. This is the free version of the podcast, so you'll only hear the first part of today's conversation. If you want the full episode, and every episode, you can subscribe at samharris.org. There are no ads on this show. It runs entirely on subscriber support. If you enjoy what we're doing here and find it valuable, please consider subscribing today. I'm here with Michael Pollan. Michael, it's great to see you again.

  2. Michael Pollan· Guest0:27

    Yeah, great to be back, Sam.

  3. Sam Harris· Host0:29

    Or to see you for the first time. We were just talking about the fact that, that the last podcast, I think, was just audio, right? We were-- It was a phone call, effectively.

  4. Michael Pollan· Guest0:35

    Yeah, it was, uh... I actually remember the day really well. It was two thousand eighteen, and I was in a hotel room in, uh, Portland, Oregon.

  5. Sam Harris· Host0:43

    Has that much time passed? Jesus, that's really depressing.

  6. Michael Pollan· Guest0:46

    Yeah. It was, uh... How to Change Your Mind had just come out.

  7. Sam Harris· Host0:49

    Yeah. Wow. I, I- And that-- And we were talking about psychedelics. If, uh, this is, must be a function of, of age, but when asked to estimate how much time has elapsed, I'm always off by a factor of at least two, if not three. [laughs] I mean, I, I, it's always, and I'm always wrong in the, in the direction of underestimating. So, um- Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah. Well, it's great to see you. It's great to s- to, uh, see that you have a new book and you have, you have written a, um, not everyone does this, you have written a bestseller on the nature of consciousness, and the book is, is A World Appears: A Journey into Consciousness, uh, which is, um, an all too natural follow on from your, your last book on psychedelics, How to Change

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