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Making Sense with Sam Harris

#460 — When the Center Cannot Hold

2/20/202622 min

Sam Harris speaks with Jonah Goldberg about the state of American conservatism and the Trump presidency. They discuss the politicization of federal institutions, the erosion of legal norms, the schism between Never Trump conservatives and the nationalist right, infighting over figures like Nick Fuentes, J.D. Vance's political future, a theory of mind for Tucker Carlson, the prospects for regime change in Iran, and other topics.

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Clips

Anti-Anti-Nazi Crowd
Judges Withdraw Presumption
Congress "Shot Through With Cowards"
Victory Goblet Metaphor
Primaries Broke Moderation
Trump’s Primary Superpower

Transcript preview

First 90 seconds

  1. Sam Harris· Host0:00

    [gentle music] Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're hearing this, you're not currently on our subscriber feed and will only be hearing the first part of this conversation. In order to access full episodes of the Making Sense Podcast, you'll need to subscribe at samharris.org. We don't run ads on the podcast, and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support of our subscribers. So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one. I am here with Jonah Goldberg. Jonah, thanks for joining me again.

  2. Jonah Goldberg· Guest0:39

    Hey, it's great to be back.

  3. Sam Harris· Host0:40

    It's great to see you. So, um, I think it's been about six months since you were on the podcast, and a few things have happened. I think I, I looked at it. It was somewhere around August of last year.

  4. Jonah Goldberg· Guest0:49

    Mm-hmm.

  5. Sam Harris· Host0:50

    I mean, I have a list of things that, that I think we could profitably discuss, but, uh, what, what's most concerning you these days? Where has your head been o-o-on, uh, on our political landscape?

  6. Jonah Goldberg· Guest1:00

    If we're talking politically, right, um, I mean, there's all sorts of... You know, the AI thing is interesting in all sorts of ways. We could talk about that and all.

  7. Sam Harris· Host1:08

    Mm.

  8. Jonah Goldberg· Guest1:08

    But if you're just talking about, like, get Goldberg on to do report from inside the Beltway, what's going on with politics stuff, I think the continued erosion of the... and politicization of our institutions in, in distressing ways is probably the main s- main thing I'm concerned about. I mean- Right ... we're talking on, you know, uh, February 19th or whatever, like,

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