#456 — American Fascism
2/4/202621 min
Sam Harris speaks with Jonathan Rauch about the emergence of fascism in American politics. They discuss Rauch's article, "Yes, It's Fascism," the 18 criteria of fascism, the glorification and unapologetic use of state violence, "might is right" foreign policy, the politicization of law enforcement, the complicity of the rich and powerful, blood and soil nationalism, the influence of Carl Schmitt, the resilience of American institutions, and other topics.
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First 90 secondsSam Harris· Host0:00
[gentle music] Welcome to the Making Sense podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're hearing this, you're not currently on our subscriber feed, and will only be hearing the first part of this conversation. In order to access full episodes of the Making Sense podcast, you'll need to subscribe at samharris.org. We don't run ads on the podcast, and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support of our subscribers. So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one. I am here with Jonathan Rauch. Thanks for joining me again.
Jonathan Rauch· Guest0:37
Happy to be here.
Sam Harris· Host0:38
So, uh, let's jump right into it. You, you have recently written yet another, um, important article for The Atlantic, where you, um, can often be found. The title of this one is Yes, It's Fascism, so that got my attention. I'm sure it got other people's attention. Like you, I've, I've resisted using this term because there, you know, there were obvious, uh, historical associations that didn't quite and don't quite map onto our current circumstance under Trump 2.0. But the resistance has seemed more and more pedantic as the months have rolled by and the, um, the overreach and indecency of this administration has become more and more obvious and unignorable and, and odious. Well, let- let's just start with your, um, misgivings about it, which you expressed to some degree in the article, and, and yet you've overcome them. How, how