195. Can the West Reclaim its Power from Trump? (Malcolm Turnbull)
6/28/20261 hr 11 min
As Western nations become increasingly dependent on the US for AI, satellite infrastructure, and defence, are they sacrificing sovereignty in exchange for American security? Can middle powers such as Australia and the UK pursue genuinely independent foreign and defence policies when a Trump-led America prioritises its own interests? Is AUKUS a genuine security partnership, or is Australia bankrolling American and British interests?
Alastair and Rory are joined by Malcolm Turnbull, former Prime Minister of Australia, to discuss all of these questions and more.
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Clips
Transcript preview
First 90 secondsAlastair Campbell· Host0:00
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Malcolm Turnbull· Guest0:12
We cannot ignore the reality of Trump. Donald Trump has said the rules-based order is bullshit. That's what he said. America's intent towards us, America's closest allies, may not be benign. Ten years ago, you would have said that's just ridiculous. AUKUS is a really bad deal for Australia. We're pouring billions and billions of Australian taxpayers' dollars to support a British shipbuilding industry and submarine industrial base that cannot build submarines in any timely fashion.
Alastair Campbell· Host0:44
Is Rupert Murdoch evil?
Malcolm Turnbull· Guest0:45
I don't think you would have had Brexit without Rupert. I don't think you would have had Trump without Rupert. Rupert has been the loudest, most influential single voice to stand against action on global warming. Brexit, Trump, and climate denial, I don't think that's a great list of achievements.
Rory Stewart· Host1:00
This episode is presented by IG.
Alastair Campbell· Host1:05
So whether it's the vetting of senior political appointments or it's costly policy U-turns, the last few months of UK politics have been a masterclass of what happens when you don't do your homework. And the consequences, as we've seen, can ripple out far beyond the initial decision.
Rory Stewart· Host1:20
And the same rules apply when choosing your investment platform, because picking the wrong one can hit you directly and in a very measurable way. Some investment platforms charge hundreds